Sundays with no wrestling PPVs tend to equal no wrestling news. Because of that, I’ve decided I’ll start a new tradition here at PWB: the Sunday Debate.

Let’s start off with a simple topic that we always like to debate: who is the greatest professional wrestler of all-time?

This is really a tough one. There have been great wrestlers in every decade: guys like Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George, Buddy Rogers, Freddy Blassie, Bruno Sammartino and Harley Race and Andre the Giant eventually gave way to guys like Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Terry Funk and Dusty Rhodes in the 1980s. But who can forget Ricky Steamboat, “The Macho Man” Randy Savage, and Bret Hart? And what about a guy like Shawn Michaels, who rose to prominence in the late 80s and early 90s and is still wrestling? The Undertaker falls in that category, as well. So does Sting.

Then, of course, you’ve got the new stars of the mid-90s and the Attitude Era: “Stone Cold” Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Triple H, Booker T, DDP, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Then there’s the newer crop of top guys: Kurt Angle, Edge, AJ Styles, Christian Cage, Samoa Joe, John Cena, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero (R.I.P.), Jeff Hardy and The Miz (OK, just kidding on that one). But seriously, one of those guys might be on their way to being one of the greatest of all-time.

There are a lot of different things that go into this debate: wrestling ability, persona and drawing power have to be the most important things to consider. Also, you have to look at it from this angle: is the guy a household name?

Those are just names off the top of my head. I know I’m leaving some big names out. But let’s get the debate going: who do you think is the greatest professional wrestler of all-time?

I’ll give you my top 5:

1. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin - As if I would choose someone else. He made the WWE relevant and cool during the hottest era of professional wrestling.

2. The Rock - He also made the WWE cool during the Attitude Era and early 2000s. In fact, he was so popular, he cut his career short and became a bona-fide movie star. His rise to stardom is so unique I think you have to put him near the top.

3. Hulk Hogan - Wow, I hate to do this, but you can’t deny the guy’s star power. He wasn’t much of a wrestler, but then again, he never really had to be thanks to his persona.

4. (Tie) Bret Hart - Simpy the best technical wrestler ever. This guy could make any stiff look good.

4. (Tie) Ric Flair - I think it’s only fitting that these two guys who didn’t really seem to like each other tie for fourth place. Flair was the man, especially in the Southern United States.

5. Undertaker - Just look at this guy’s longevity and drawing power–it’s ridiculous. Also, his ability as a big man is truly unmatched. I’ve never seen such a big man wrestle so well. I put Undertaker at number five instead of Shawn Michaels simply because he can make any feud popular, with or without a championship belt inovlved. Like it or not, more people seem to be interested in a random Undertaker feud than the greatness that was Chris Jericho and HBK earlier this year. That definately counts for something in my book.

There are really some tough choices involved in deciding who’s the best–I always have to throw a lot of my personal biases out the window. Granted, I’ve got Stone Cold first, but I actually put Hulk Hogan on this list, and that pains me. It also pains me to leave HBK and Mick Foley off, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I wanted to get some feedback for this week’s podcast–the PWBTV section of the show is going to focus on Wrestlemania 24 (duh).

Lately, I’ve noticed that the Raw discussions have dropped off a bit. Those are usually a pretty good indicator of how many people are watching Raw. When the discussions drop off the night of, more people are usually DVRing the show.

For example, go back to the January 21 Raw discussion–we had 123 comments. WWE had it’s first HD show, and people were excited about the product. Then, look at last night’s discussion: only 28 responses so far.

Bottom line: I’m worried about the interest in WWE’s product as of late. I know I’ve been DVRing more of the shows and catching them later, rather than watching them live. Up until three or four months ago, I never missed watching a WWE show right when it came on. So that makes me wonder–how many of you are going to order Wrestlemania 24?

As for me, I’m up in the air right now. I will admit that last night’s Ric Flair/HBK segment was pretty damn amazing. I’d really like to see that match now. But, for now, that’s the only thing that’s really got me hooked.

If you are going to order Mania, why are you ordering it? Will you be watching it alone, or will you be throwing or attending a Mania party where everyone pitches in? Is cost a concern to you?

If you’re not ordering Mania, why aren’t you?

I’ll use the best responses on the podcast this week. Thanks as always.

First off, don’t forget to VOTE for the PWB 2007 Awards over on the forums. I may have to extend the voting another week to see if we can rally more peeps to vote.

Tonight marks the WWE’s first foray into HD programming. Unfortunately for me, I don’t have USA HD, so I won’t be able to check out wrestling in HD until Smackdown comes on Friday night.

Tonight’s Raw features what could be a great match between HBK and Kennedy, and Triple H facing off against a mystery opponent for a spot in the Rumble. Also, Vinny Mac has ordered Jeff Hardy and Randy Orton to shake hands in the middle of the ring. They damn well better be selling the crap out of that spot last week, or it’s going to look silly.

Discuss Raw here. Any guesses on who Triple H’s mystery opponent is?

For everyone’s enjoyment this Friday afternoon

The following was not written by me. It was written by Cody Deaner, an indie wrestler based out of Alabama. It is reposted here with his permission.

The following blog was written for http://www.thaoshow.com:

Is Pro Wrestling Really Cyclical?

About a month ago at a GCW show I asked Donnie and Dan-e-o, “When the hell am I going to get an O Show t-shirt? Jeez … I’m on the friggin’ writing staff!” And Dan-e-o replied, “When you write another column you lazy prick!”

Well Dan-e-o (you 4-foot Pizza Pop poppin’ freestylin’ midget), here’s your column. And I expect my t-shirt at the next wrestling show I see you at.

In this column, I want to write about a question that I have been asking myself lately: “Is Pro Wrestling Really Cyclical?” …

The quick answer that most workers, fans, and office personnel give is an easy one: “Yes.” Historically, you hear almost every great worker from Flair to Hogan, to Austin, to Michaels say the same thing (especially when business is going bad): “Wrestling is just going through a down time right now. Things will pick up. They always do. Don’t worry … this business is cyclical.” What these guys mean when they say this is that wrestling has its ups and downs. Sometimes the highs are really high - like the Hogan Era, or the Stone Cold Era. And sometimes, the lows are really low - like the Isaac Yankem era, or the “Viagra on a Pole Match” era. But either way, people always believe that the business will come full circle. If business is good, the good times won’t last forever. Or if business is bad, eventually things will pick up. People are saying that very thing about the wrestling business right now.

I would consider the wrestling business to be in a “down time” right now. Ratings aren’t good. The TV product isn’t good. And in general, pro wrestling is considered a dirty word whenever it is spoken of by the mainstream media. So, I ask myself, will things pick up? Will wrestling ever be good again? Will pro wrestling ever be what I remember it being when I was a young 6 year old? My friends in the business keep telling me “Yes.” But, day after day, the more I think about it, I can’t help but think the correct answer is actually “No.”

And I’ll tell you why …

The business is simply not what it used to be. Plain and simple.

Pro wrestling is no longer about the “artform.” It’s not about putting on a dramatic match. It’s about putting together a formulaic spot-fest that fits within the confides of a 6 minute TV timeslot. It’s not about developing a character and allowing guys to build that character through dramatic, meaningful, and fun promos. It’s about giving guys a script for their part on the TV show. It’s not about building young talent who genuinely love the business and want to see it succeed. It’s about creating robots who will make you a quick buck who could care less about the history of pro wrestling or what a privilege it is to be part of such a special fraternity.

I think most people think that, like in the past, all the crappy writers, and all the crappy wrestlers will eventually be weeded out and we’ll be left with some good wrestling again. Folks … I’m sorry to say that’s just not happening. The modern pro wrestling system will not allow this to happen. Let me explain this “system” to you.

Where does the WWE go to get new talent? Their developmental system. What’s being developed in their “developmental” system? Robots. You either have guys that have no business being in the sport (i.e. body-builders, self-marks, jabronies) being taught how to put together the formula of wrestling match; or, you have guys who are genuinely passionate about wrestling trying to make a name for themselves, but are politically held back or punished for straying from the formula. I’m not going to go into depth about what I mean by “formula” because that would require going in depth about ring psychology, which I simply refuse to do in a public forum. But, I will say, you simply can’t teach someone to have “it.” You can’t teach someone how to draw people into their match. There is no “formula” on how to do this. Some guys naturally have this ability. But, unfortunately, most guys don’t. I have seen maybe 5-7 pre-35 year old workers on TV in the last 5 years that actually keep my attention. And that’s bad. Because I love wrestling. I can’t help but think there just HAS to be something wrong when I can’t watch wrestling … because it’s my passion.

So … why has this “system” developed? Why isn’t the WWE scouting indy talent and bringing in guys that genuinely LOVE wrestling and have that “it” factor? Because they don’t have to. They are making money without doing that. It sucks, but it’s true. The WWE is make money. Ya, I consider the business to be in a “down time,” but that’s not to say that the WWE is losing money. They make tonnes of money overseas. They are now a public company. So they have investors giving them money. Also, the WWE is no longer strictly a “wrestling” product. No, it’s a clothing apparel product, a movie making product, a music industry product, etc. Vince has expanded the brand of WWE so much that the focus is no longer what is happening in the ring. I recently heard Harley Race say that nowadays what happens before and after the match is more important than what happens during the match. This is sad but true.

Here’s the bottom line that I have come to: Money-wise, wrestling will always be cyclical. BUT, in-ring quality wise … I don’t think this is true anymore. There will always be pro wrestling on TV. But, there will not always be good pro wrestling on TV. Eventually, good wrestling will die. The artform will be totally annihilated. It’s well on it’s way.

Is there any hope?

I recently read Terry Funk’s biography. He argues that wrestling is cyclical, and he gives a very interesting take on where the business is headed. I think his hypothesis might just give us some hope.

Here’s a paraphrased version of Terry Funk’s argument:

The art of pro wrestling is pretty much dead. Since Vince McMahon exposed wrestling as a “work,” the artform has slowly gone downhill. The new pro wrestling is MMA. MMA is now realizing that worked-shoots draw much more money. UFC does a fantastic job of building talent and promoting PPV’s. Eventually though, MMA will be exposed for what it is - a “work.” And eventually MMA will evolve and start to add more drama to the package. And what we’ll be left with is what we used to have in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s - realistic pro wrestling. And eventually, it will continue to evolve, get more exposed and we’ll again have what we have today in the pro wrestling world. Eventually, the whole cycle will start over again.

When I first heard this argument, it really made me think. I’ve been calling UFC and MMA a work for years. Apparently Terry Funk agrees with me.

UFC is the new pro wrestling. People cram arenas and buy up PPV’s to see someone get beat up. Sound familiar? Ya … pro wrestling when it was good. UFC builds there talent on their weekly TV shows better than pro wrestling companies. They build legit, easy to understand feuds better than pro wrestling companies. And they build their workers and feuds around one simple thing - competition. That’s the issue. Who’s better? Who’s the better man? Who is tougher than who? Who can knock the other guy out? Who can tap the other guy out? Who can carry the gold? Sound familiar? Ya … pro wrestling when it was good.

I know a lot of you O-sters are going to disagree with this theory and defend MMA as legit. That’s fine. That just means that the UFC/MMA is doing its job. It’s working you. Which is awesome. Cherish that. You get to be a true mark and enjoy the product like you are supposed to. Instead of watching a match
and “critiquing” the “ring psychology” of it all. You just get to sit back and go along for the dramatic ride.

Here’s the only problem I have with this theory. I don’t like MMA. I love pro wrestling. I want to see pro wrestling be admired, respected, and enjoyed again. But, with the current “system” that is in place, with the current talent, and the current mindset of the North American promoter, I just don’t think I’m going to see an awesome product again.

I hope I’m wrong. But, I don’t think I am.

Let me know what you think.

As always, keep givin’er,

Cody Deaner

Who do you think is Mr. McMahon’s illegitimate son? Vote. These are the choices that WWE.com gave us.

The Miz,Jamie Noble,Batista,Snitsky,
Shelton Benjamin ,Chavo Guerrero, Kevin Thorn, Randy Orton
Triple H, Balls Mahoney, Chuck Palumbo, Steven Richards
Carlito ,Umaga, Kane , Matt Hardy
Paul London , Val Venis , Deuce , John Morrison
Matt Striker , John Cena , Domino , Elijah Burke
The Great Khali , CM Punk , Daivari ,Charlie Haas
Rey Mysterio , Finlay ,Jeff Hardy , Rory McAllister,
Chris Masters , Hornswoggle ,Kenny Dykstra , Big Daddy V
Tommy Dreamer ,MVP, Sandman , Brian Kendrick,
Funaki, Shannon Moore , Jimmy Wang Yang, Lance Cade
Robbie McAllister, The Boogeyman , Santino Marella , Mark Henry
King Booker ,Trevor Murdoch,…..Sid.

Believe it or not, Steven Richards is leading the pack with 21.4% of the votes, then HHH with 21.2%, then Paul London with 6%, then Khali with 4%. Currently we are at 34,000 votes.

(Thinking out loud)
Triple H is the favorite, but since WWE.com hinted that he may be the child it wont be, then again it could be someone who is returning. Y2J? Sid? Using the Clues that they gave us, I am hoping that it is not The Great Khali, I pick Kenny Dykstra.

I know somehow that I am waaaAAAAAAAaaaayyy off, but thats Kenny’s taunt. Lashley is a close 2nd.

Lets here everyone’s opinion and vote for bragging rights.

Source: www.youtube.com/thejsnwwf or www.youtube.com/wwecompany
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Kennedy admits that he knew that Benoit was taking “recreational drugs.” I was very surprised to hear this more than I was ot hear that Kennedy used it steroids before because he was REAL thin in OVW. Kennedy is honest and never dull, unlike like Cena. Cena ends every ppv the same way. Vince, give Kennedy the title at mania and promote Matt Hardy to ECW champ please!

P.S. Lex, is something wrong with your podcast equipment or is there another reason that there hasnt been a podcast in a while.